Twilight of the Starchitected Condo
Friday, March 31, 2006, by Lockhart
Duck and cover! A shock-and-awe Friday bombshell from the Wall Street Journal frags our reality with this newsflash: starchitected condo buildings around NYC aren't selling like hotcakes. Er, in fact, some really aren't selling very well at all:
1) "[A Related Cos. exec] says apartments at the undulating glass tower, designed by architect Charles Gwathmey, are worth their prices. But just one condo has sold since September, leaving 15 of the 39 units empty ... Astor Place turned over an empty apartment to Esquire magazine last November for 20 days. The unit, listed at $12.5 million, got a lavish, full-page photo spread in the monthly. It's still on the market."
2) "After two years of high-profile promotion, the newest Manhattan tower by Richard Meier ... has sold just 15 of its 31 units (not counting five bought by its developers)."
3) "Two years ago, developer Frank J. Sciame hired Pritzker Prize-winning Spanish architect Santiago Calatrava to create one of the most highly stylized apartment houses ever envisioned for New York. The building in lower Manhattan would consist of 10 cube-like apartment units, each 45 feet high, cantilevered one atop each other around a central axis. Yet none of the units—asking $29 million to $45 million each—has even received a bid, let alone sold, says Mr. Sciame, and construction hasn't started."
4) "Not all celebrity-architect buildings have been slow to sell. [Robert A.M.] Stern's prewar-style apartment house on Manhattan's Central Park West is more than 50% sold after just two months on the market. Elsewhere in New York, apartments at a building that's a collaboration between the French architect Jean Nouvel and hotelier Andre Balazs went on sale two months ago and buyers already have signed contracts on 31 of its 40 units, its developers say."
Impacting, developing, crying, weeping, wailing, etc, &c., etc.
· The Architect May Be A-List, But the Condos Aren't Selling [WSJ]
BONUS: Explicate this line, if you will: "Phillip Johnson and the Swiss firm Herzog & de Meuron ... have been hired for condo buildings in Manhattan." Could they, by any chance, mean the late Philip Johnson, who's likely beyond the whole hiring grind by now?
BONUS x2: While we're on the fact-checking kick, a commenter points out that Calatrava (aka "The Spanish Conquistador") hasn't yet taken home a Pritzker—unlike a fair number of the other boldface names dotting the article.
See, no matter what, pre-war (even pre-war LIKE) is where it's at.
Not sure I'd call that pre-war style, but it is an attractive building.
simply put, the star architects that are having trouble selling apartments in their developments are not very good designers. they are capable and highly recognised architects but this is not enough to ensure sales. the disturbing but not widely recognised fact is, these guys know little about design or design history. lifestyle is all important now and has been for a while, an architect has to be able to make an appropriate style statement to be successful. astor place is a vapid architectural statement that is poorly concieved, inside and out, sadly, and falls way short on design, meier's projects are better but the charles st. interiors are of inferior quality for the price. wenge floors are cupping and are made up of short (4') planks. the silk glass is stylistically dated and marks badly, walls are painted with decorator white and are cheaply done... and i could go on. for 7000000+, 1/2 of 10th floor, i would expect a little more skill and attention to detail.
balaz understands which architects are able to deliver. there are only a few.
So now Bruce Ratner can safely fire Frank Gehry to build the hulking, featureless monstrosities he's always secretly planned...
I'm surprised ANY of those Astor Place apts sold. If you have $10 million or whatever, why not buy a classy place near Central Park for $8 million, and supervise your own $2 million renovation to meet YOUR needs, not those of some architect. Who wants to spend $10 million to live at a hangout for skatepunks and B&T trash?
Rich skatepunks and B&T trash? People who remember the place "back in the day," but have since made millions by founding/investing in Google? People who don't care for the pre-war aesthetic (see last week's Times article)? But if the condos are "worth their prices," why haven't they sold? Maybe they're not worth their prices -- in a free market isn't it market forces that set prices?
well said, #3
Most starchitecture and signature buildings are like designer labels on cheap shirts. You're not getting value, you're getting hype.
Intelligent and productive architect/developer relationships (like Nouvel/Balaz or the one that created Porter House in the Meatpacking District) are what make great buildings.
One can only hope NYC will see more thoughtful development that involves real architecture, which sustains its value like the pre-war buildings we admire.
whoa whoa whoa, The Spanish Conquistador is not a Pritzker winner as of yet. Starchitect none the less, but if we start flagrantly applying the Architects Oscar to whoever 'Developer du jour' is propping up, its gonna get messy.
If he loses again this year I'm gonna celebrate.
Rodger, It's more a function of price and location.
I remember Astor Place "back in the day" when I was in law school in the late 80s. At night it was a huge flea market for homeless people selling things they found in the garbage. Good times.
Or stole from people's apartments. My brother lived on 12th St. between 1st and 2nd -- when his apartment got robbed the police suggested he go there to see if he could buy back any of his stuff.
But I'm referring to the good times enjoyed by drunken and stoned NYU students turning the cube...
Interesting, VDH.
Perhaps the same intelligence that goes into selecting and collaborating with a good architect also influences the choices of marketing, pricing, land purchase, etc. It's just smart development.
"Design" and sophisticated hype are the emperor's new clothes - those glass towers are still cheap developer buildings.
vdh, i don't disagree, but i believe a few architects/ developers are capable of adding greater value to the price and location than others. those that are most savvy, like balazs, will likely never have a problem selling their developments because the understand, beyond price and location, what value needs to be added.
They've hired a medium to channel him. Expect new adjectives like "ectoplasmic" to be used to describe the other-worldly features of these transcendent (out of) mind/body experiences.
The WSJ article proves its own point - and reinforces the #1 concept in maintaining value - perfectly. "Location, Location, Location." 15 CPW is selling because of the location. Brand new homes on CPW below 96th Street are likely to never be available again. The market timing by the developer is perfect. They paid top $$ for the site and have been able to command top $$ for the product. People - a $1.8 BILLION sellout - absolutely mind-boggling as a concept, may well become reality. The other developments noted in the article are all in fringe locations. The starchitect IS the draw. The primary draw. But land is expensive, so you can't blame developers for aiming high with 'design cachet'. Simply put, people will pay more and travel further from prime nabes in a hot market. As the market cools, people only look to pay less and stay closer to established nabes. That is what you are seeing now.
Hate to break it to you, but nothing is selling like hotcakes.
OK, I have just red the WSJ article and as realguy says, it boils down to location.
They do force the point when they say 165 Charles "overlooks a busy highway and has views of Jersey" but they do contrast that with views of Central Park.
I still don't believe that the buyers' perceptions of Meier's and Gwathmey's work being subpar are the main issues. I'm not sure that the buyers know that much about good design to be honest. That's what they pay their interior designers for.
What they do know is that $3000 psf for 165 Charles is at the very top of the market and does not have the cachet of a central park view address and that the astor place apts are in an odd location (for them) coupled with the fact that it is on a land lease so they don't even own the land that the thing is built on.
#7, #12 and Rodger, what would you say that Nouvel/Balzs are doing right with the Soho place? I'm afraid I know less about this place than I would like to.
Thanks in advance.
Astor place building is butt ugly.
#18, the 40 Mercer Street building has a much better location (your view is of other landmark buildings not Kmart) and the building is much more upscale (50 foot pool etc.)
Did David Geffen offer 10 million for a 12.5 million place at Astor Place, and 1 million below asking price for a penthouse at 165 Charles St ? If billionaires are not willing to pay those prices then the developers are in trouble. There are only so many billionaires around NYC. As they say, if you don't see there are no greater fools around, then you probably are it.
What's going on with our Blue?
With some of the glass up, it's starting to be endearing, the same way Thor is.
Did David Geffen offer 10 million for a 12.5 million place at Astor Place, and 1 million below asking price for a penthouse at 165 Charles St ? If billionaires are not willing to pay those prices then the developers are in trouble. There are only so many billionaires around NYC. As they say, if you don't see there are no greater fools around, then you probably are it.
Blue has always been endearing, in a way that THOR never will. I'm glad that it's getting blue in time for the warm weather!
I am not surprised and, in fact, feel vindicated by these findings; New Yorkers are not so vapid as to believe that a name brand is worth more than quality. I always thought that employing starchitects as a marketing strategy would likely fail. For the most part, many New Yorkers have always placed living in ornate prewar buildings overlooking Manhattan's great Central Park at the top of the lifestyle hierarchy. 15 Central Park West increases the opportunity for those with means to not only realize this often illusory goal but to do so without the hassle of stonefaced co-op boards and complicated renovations. And from a design standpoint, 15 CPW's adherance to prewar design principles offers a refreshing and welcome respite from the onslaught of steel-and-glass that seems to be dooming quite a few overpriced and sparsely designed residential projects in Manhattan these days. I hope the marketeers are paying attention.
The biggest turn-off about the Astor place Gwathmey project is not the design, per se, but the awful truth that it is a land-lease deal. People avoid these like the plague once they learn about it. Land-lease deals are so stupid on condo projects. The AG's office should restrict them to rentals only.
#20, I understand the location aspect (something I have been saying throughout this thread) but it sounded like ppl were saying Nouvel and Balazs had a very keen insight (over and above good location and throwing in a swimming pool for the PH) into what makes for a desirable development. I have not heard what this insight is yet and I would sincerelt like to know what it is that others think makes them so special.
vdh,
i think balazs is able to wow that small pool of property buyers because he knows how to create high quality life style properties that are also innovative in a way cultured money can appreciate. in short, its a fashion world formula of design innovation on top of precedence rather than straight out innovation from first principles (which is the way most architects are taught to think these days). balazs is looking to create contemporary classics. the 40 mercer residences are going to be like this. one of the aspects i find appealing about these spaces is the way nouvel revisits the design of the archetypal ny loft building. one of the innovations i like, in particular, is the large wall sized sliding glass window panels. in the past, these panels(doors) were made of zinc and opened to other rooms, but here, the glass functions as a window and opens to the outside... well, anyway, this is not such an interesting thing,per se, but it is in this case it is, but largely because of the way it is done, the size of it, the shape of it and the detail of it.
i could go on.
point is, design can pay, there are sophisticated buyers out there looking for something more than price and location but the developer needs to be sophisicated enough to know how to choose the right architect/designer...
btw.
i think steve starr pushed the envelope choosing tadao ando to do his restaurant morimoto. i give him a lot of credit for that. largely because the ny restaurant world is pretty hostile to such hard core modernism and he took a chance.... andao has always worshiped at the altar of light.(the most important thing to do well in restaurants, more important than the food) so, ando was brilliant choice even tho. he had never done a restaurant before... and what a brilliant result.
interested to know what you think.
enough blabbing from me.
btw. balazs kenmare dev. does have a commanding out look towards the williamsburg bridge, location of this property is wonderful, as is charles st. and its axial alignment and view out on to the pier. these properties are very appealing and unique in this regard and appeal most especially to those of us with aspirations to live in our own versions of versaille.
The market for "ultra-luxury" condos is quite small.
No matter how rich, sexy, and sophisticated the potential buyers for these types of units think they are;The truth is that most of them start losing sleep once their mortgage is above $800k
Which one of these buildings will be the 1st to cut prices? Astor place could cut prices 20% and the units would still sit there, and sit there, and sit there. Walk by it at night and there isnt 1 light on. Nobody is home in that ugly building. Maybe they can turn it into a massive Starbucks.
Astor place is a land lease so common charges are super high
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