TribecaSpace Reader Report: "Weird and Dark"

1.

I went to see two of the available duplex apartments with a client. Ugh! The larger of the two, has a lower floor window (which is the lone living room window) that looks at the building mechanicals – about six inches from the window! There is a spiral staircase that is steep and not safe to navigate, especially for kids and pets (and drinkers).

As for the other duplex, the master bedroom did not have a window, but it did have a door to the main hallway. It also had bad lighting and an unsafe spiral staircase (my client said if she was interested in the apartment, she would probably use the main staircase of the building instead of her apartment’s stairs to get between her two floors).

Fixtures were low rent (I suspect they expect people to refinish everything – from floors to kitchen cabinets to bathroom fixtures). You can kind of see this in the picture of the model.

I know they say they are priced accordingly for Tribeca. However, this is more like City Hall and paying $1.4 million for 1,400 square feet with minimal windows, no natural light, poor closets, etc. is not what I call a bargain.

As for the positive, the lobby was big and had old pictures of the street (and a faux fireplace). Amenities are standard. The broker was nice. She showed us around and was very patient and upbeat. Also, they are building a doggy day care place next door that looks great. I met the guy who owns the place and he was like the dog whisperer. He was great with dogs, and the building is pet friendly.

2.

Overall, I agree with the poster. However, I though the lobby was kind of nice. Most of the master bedrooms (called a master simply because it had a window) had no bathroom, or had a closet smaller than a linen closet). The second bedroom had no windows (they claimed there were some kind of windows behind the wall, however, without my X-ray glasses with me--I only saw a wall). There were some nice features, like brick walls and high ceilings, but not enogh to make me want to part with that kind of cash. There were also duplexes with scary, narrow spiral staircases. One glass of wine and... Better off putting in a fireman's pole and sliding between floors.

3.

I also checked out the apartments @ Tribeca Space this weekend. Strangely enough, even though we were there the first week they were on the market, the "best" two units were already sold...hmm?

We looked at several units -- all but one (which happened to be the sold one) were beyond odd. Windows in crawl spaces that arched over hallways so that bedrooms could be "legal", cheap kitchen aid appliances, junky looking molding and strange duplex layouts.

It seems like they are truly struggling to position "B-" quality units at "A" quality prices, which for this neighborhood is absolutely ridiculous. Supposedly the developer started building out an office building .. . then switched gears when the residential market got hot. It shows in the irregular unit configurations.

I think they are going to have a tough time moving these considering 3 new buildings are going up on the same block and the market has cooled a bit . . . time will tell.

4.

Looked today. Liked the model in the picture above. Has a few odditys, like the second bedroom "window" described above, and lack of closet space - though I disagree with above posters - please tell me where you find good space in this area for 1000sf?

After months and 10 open houses this weekend I am thinking about making a move on one of these - though prefer the model the most and there are no more available in that config. yet.

5.

Looked today. Liked the model in the picture above. Has a few odditys, like the second bedroom "window" described above, and lack of closet space - though I disagree with above posters - please tell me where you find good space in this area for 1000sf?

After months and 10 open houses this weekend I am thinking about making a move on one of these - though prefer the model the most and there are no more available in that config. yet.

6.

I agree with you #4&5
$1000psf is low for Tribeca when other new construction places like the Summit and 138 Reade average around $1400 psf.

However, some people would argue that "real" tribeca doesn't extend further south than Chambers or even Reade. There is a distinct change in feel between prime tribeca around nmoore and franklin and southern tribeca wich actually feels closer to city hall in look and feel. So non-prime tribeca location (though good for transportation), cheap fittings/appliances, and very convoluted way of getting legal bedrooms with no useful windows means that, even if $1000psf is low for tribeca, it needs to be that low to sell.

BTW, when I first looked at floorplans when this was first posted on curbed I did think that, along with the usual courtyard cut into the middle to creat legal bedrooms (see the summit at 415 greenwich and the roebling at 169 hudson) it looked like a lot of bedrooms had no windows. So thank you #3 for the windows in crawl spaces description. That helped me understand where they were - no xray glasses required.

7.

Keep looking . . . there are options in Tribeca. This building is a dog. I have been watching the development for the last 18 months and there is definitely something not kosher going on. One day workers, the next day none. I think this building has some real financial problems and are scrambling top get to market before the Warren/Chambers St. buildings are completed.

I have looked at these plus all of the Financial Dist buildings (59 John, etc.). As far as quality of buildouts vs. price, there is no comaprison.

These are overpriced and as the market cools, I think a great deal of people are going to be stuck with oddball units that have weak re-sale. Look at the neighborhood . . . way too many buildings going up for this to be a good investment . . .

8.

Keep looking . . . there are options in Tribeca. This building is a dog. I have been watching the development for the last 18 months and there is definitely something not kosher going on. One day workers, the next day none. I think this building has some real financial problems and are scrambling top get to market before the Warren/Chambers St. buildings are completed.

I have looked at these plus all of the Financial Dist buildings (59 John, etc.). As far as quality of buildouts vs. price, there is no comaprison.

These are overpriced and as the market cools, I think a great deal of people are going to be stuck with oddball units that have weak re-sale. Look at the neighborhood . . . way too many buildings going up for this to be a good investment . . .

9.

1000sf may be cheap in Tribeca terms (if we are really calling this area Tribeca, I think its pretty fringe), however, 1000sf is a LOT of $$$$ to spend on sub-standard construction and poorly-designed spaces. Basically, you are just buying SPACE (what a crafty name they thought of). You know what they say, you can our syrup on #%$%#@, but it still don't make em pancakes...

10.

1000sf may be cheap in Tribeca terms (if we are really calling this area Tribeca, I think its pretty fringe), however, 1000sf is a LOT of $$$$ to spend on sub-standard construction and poorly-designed spaces. Basically, you are just buying SPACE (what a crafty name they thought of). You know what they say, you can pour syrup on #%$%#@, but it still don't make em pancakes...

11.

Um, #9&10, I said all of that already. I guess you said it more succinctly though - I'll give you that.

12.

I can only guess what #%$%#@ is, but I agree with the sentiment. I went to see the Space. They even went cheap on the model unit (which, while one poster noted, is almost okay but not available – seems that every unit that has actual sunlight was sold before anybody got in). No designer. Just store bought (or borrowed) items.

Cheap. Dark. The Howard Johnson of “Tribeca” (kind of) brand of “luxury” living. Looks like the dog guy next door put more money into his place.

13.

I agree with commment that what you are really buying is space - and feel that 1000sf in this location is a good price for a canvas.

Put a little money into one of these and in five years no one is going to be looking at the building "as a whole"... it will be about your one apartment.

Places going for as high as $1400sf right now within a block of this...

For those that know of better value in this area (or more in the true Tribeca area), please list a few complexes... I can't find one.

14.

Downtown Buyer:

You really need to see these places to understand how truly odd they are. Seriously -- windowless rooms, very cheap appliances, incredibly bad layouts, plus no washer/dryers. And, $1,000/sf was the lowball cost for the very worst places. Others were in the 1,100 range+.

For that rate you can do a search on any of the major sites and find older lofts which much better layouts that you can sink a few bucks into. The idea behind new dev is that you shouldn't have to put money into it -- that's why you pay a premium.

Check out the older conversions at 261 Broadway and 258 Broadway (both on the same block). They go for $1000-1,100 a sft.

15.

Downtown Buyer:

You really need to see these places to understand how truly odd they are. Seriously -- windowless rooms, very cheap appliances, incredibly bad layouts, plus no washer/dryers. And, $1,000/sf was the lowball cost for the very worst places. Others were in the 1,100 range+.

For that rate you can do a search on any of the major sites and find older lofts which much better layouts that you can sink a few bucks into. The idea behind new dev is that you shouldn't have to put money into it -- that's why you pay a premium.

Check out the older conversions at 261 Broadway and 258 Broadway (both on the same block). They go for $1000-1,100 a sft.

16.

I saw these spaces too. #13, I agree with you--but only to a degree. Put some money into these--high end fixtures and appliances, bigger closets, etc.--and you can have a really nice looking space, especially given the high ceilings, brick walls, etc. However, no amount of money is ever going to give you more natural light, better views, or a window in the second bedroom, or an en suite master. These are the things that buyers really look for when making a purchase, because everything else can be changed. This leads me to believe that the developer must know this to a degree, which is why they "cheaped out" on these apartments. If you had all the bells and whistles and had to pay top dollar for it, its doubtful they would move given the structural deficiencies.

17.

Ppl seem to be fixated on new construction which used to be the path to RE bargains (without having to get in super early) but not anymore. They are at a premium to the market due to newness, buzz, etc., plus you have to pay the state and city transfer taxes as a buyer when you don't have to for resales.

For alternatives to 25 Murray it is much better, as #14 said, to find an older place that has either been renovated recently - so you get newness - or needs updating - so you get the high end stuff that you want instead of the cheap stuff at 25 Murray that you will replace anyway if you are treating it like a blank canvass.

18.

Some of the spaces for around a $1,000 per sq ft have living rooms that look at walls or appliances (noise and no light). That is a deficiency that you can never change. You could put in a lot of artificial light and replace the appliances, fixtures and floors, but that is a real drag after spending all of this money on a new place.

One thing not mentioned, is that the tax and maintenance are very high once the abatements go away. So if you buy now and want to sell in a few years, the subsequent purchaser is going to be looking at tax and maintenance in excess of $2,000 per month.

The units that are less problematic (i.e., actually get some natural light and have more customary layouts) are priced well in excess of $1,000 per sq ft.

19.

Maintenance looks about $800 and taxes $220. Abatement is 10 years. Pretty good and normal.

20.

Are prices negotiable on new construction?

21.

I am told that they are not. That they will say NO, because someone else will step right in.

Though, being a novice to all this, I cant see why it isnt like any other commodity... offer what you want.

22.

I just bought a beautiful classic loft in prime Tribeca (i.e. north of Reade) for 1000 per sqf. It can be done.

23.

To anonymous... give up some scoop?

SF and Price paid?
Why better then 25 Murray?

24.

1,900 sf - 1.9M

Classic loft, beautiful reno, central AC, 3 exposures. Not a "full service building", but doormen are so passe anyway ;)

25.

Kudos to u

26.

I agree with 8, my wife and I recently viewed the building several times and left a bit skeptical. We haven;t seen any workers during the day. We noticed that some of the work in the apts were sub-par bespeaking of a sub-optimal construction crew. The layouts were all weird and there were alot of windowless rooms or makeshift windows in bedrooms. We finally found a line that would work for us and we are seriously considering this building, but are a bit concerned with re-sale. Does anyone know the developer's story?

27.

I agree with 8, my wife and I recently viewed the building several times and left a bit skeptical. We haven;t seen any workers during the day. We noticed that some of the work in the apts were sub-par bespeaking of a sub-optimal construction crew. The layouts were all weird and there were alot of windowless rooms or makeshift windows in bedrooms. We finally found a line that would work for us and we are seriously considering this building, but are a bit concerned with re-sale. Does anyone know the developer's story?

28.

I agree with 8, my wife and I recently viewed the building several times and left a bit skeptical. We haven;t seen any workers during the day. We noticed that some of the work in the apts were sub-par bespeaking of a sub-optimal construction crew. The layouts were all weird and there were alot of windowless rooms or makeshift windows in bedrooms. We finally found a line that would work for us and we are seriously considering this building, but are a bit concerned with re-sale. Does anyone know the developer's story?

29.

I agree with 8, my wife and I recently viewed the building several times and left a bit skeptical. We haven;t seen any workers during the day. We noticed that some of the work in the apts were sub-par bespeaking of a sub-optimal construction crew. The layouts were all weird and there were alot of windowless rooms or makeshift windows in bedrooms. We finally found a line that would work for us and we are seriously considering this building, but are a bit concerned with re-sale. Does anyone know the developer's story?

30.

This article is too deep to get more good comments... I wish there was a way to DIGG it back to the frontpage.

31.

MHunter --

I am not an expert, but know the neighborhood pretty well (lived here for a while) and think that this building will not be a shining star in the resale category. Within 3 blocks there are no less than seven new/rehabs going on in addition to the WOOLWORTH building which is rumored to come online soon. The block is going to be very hot (WHOLE FOODS/Barnes & Noble/etc.) coming in, but these units are sooo substandard, that I would be suprised if they can ride the wave.

For the prices they are charging, you would at least expect good buildouts, if the layouts were bad. In this case you get both bad layouts and fixtures. (I just gutted a loft in the 'hood and know a good toilte from a cheap one! All of their stuff is rental quality).

Altough I am rooting for the 'hood because it will help me with resale, I just think there are many better options out there . . .

32.

# 31, can you tell me which are the better options out there?

33.

What do you guys think of Tribeca space. thinking about making an offer at $1228/psf for one of the units will better sunlight.

34.

Does anyone know why Tribeca Space is still sitting empty? I thought the building was supposed to be ready months ago. Has the developer run out of cash?

35.

I gave been considering a unit in this building, but the Certificate of Occupancy (CO) has not yet been properly obtained. So, for all those folks that put their money down, they have not been able to move into their apartments. They have been saying the CO will be secured for about a year now. Obviously something is wrong and the people who already bought must be VERY mad. Any feedback?

36.

I bought a unit and I'm beyond very mad - Corcoran and the Sponsor have been giving me the run-around and continuously pushing out the projected closing date. All I've heard is that there's an "easement problem." Would other buyers like to form together and start asserting some joint pressure? At this point, I'd prefer to have my deposit back. Easement problems can drag on for years.

37.

I signed a contract last August so I'm in the same boat. I was told the delay was due to an easement problem as well, specifically that the developer hadn't properly acquired the air rights over part of the building and was negotiating for them. This was supposedly taken care of a couple months ago, but they still blame it for the delay. They claim that now all the inspections for the temp CO have been completed, except for one which they have to resubmit as built plans. They further claim that they should get the CO in a week or so. That was what I was told last week, so we'll see.

38.

has anyone out there tried to get out of their purchase contract at tribeca space due to the delays and lies surrounding occupancy?

39.

has anyone out there tried to get out of their purchase contract at tribeca space due to the delays and lies surrounding occupancy?

40.

has anyone out there tried to get out of their purchase contract at tribeca space due to the delays and lies surrounding occupancy?

41.

not that I know of. I still very much want to move in, I'm still clinging to hope that it will be in time to enjoy the terrace for part of the summer. It still looks like all but 8 of the 74 units are in contract on corcoran. Does anyone know the application number for the CO? If so you can track the status at the nyc DOB website: http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/certificates/status.shtml

42.

Do you know for sure that they really applied for a temporay C of O?

43.

Who knows - corcoran just spews lies about TS. Has anyone tried contacting sponsor's lawyer?

44.

I just called him. He's out of the office until Tuesday, so I emailed him, although I don't expect it do get me anywhere.

45.

go on line to
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/PropertyProfileOverviewServlet?boro=1&houseno=25&street=murray+st&go2=+GO+&requestid=0

BIS building informatiion system of DOB--look up all the job records
from what I can see, the sprinkler system still needs correction and the electrical work has not been inspected yet

Watched this project start before 9/11--it must have passed hands, gone through many twists and turns. Site says no C of O app is on file and don't see it anywhere in the filings maybe you can find it.

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/COApplicationSummaryServlet?requestid=6&passjobnumber=103344686&passdocnumber=01&allisn=0000539425&allbin=1001451

46.

If the air rights issue was resolved months ago---why are closings being pushed back further to mid-August?

What is the sales team claiming these new delays are caused by??

47.

I've tried to ask the sales team, but they claim not to know what is causing the delays. Willful blindness is not acting in good faith. At this point, all buyers should contact the developer and the developer's attorney for detailed information on the reason and the status of the delays. Hopefully, if all the buyers contact them, maybe they will start to respond. Developer is Donald DiSimone at 212-277-3346. The attorney is Charles Weiss at 212-226-5454

48.

Time to get out. Corcoran and the Developer have been jerking people around for over a year. I have seen this before. If you can get your money, get out and don't look back.

49.

The people who bought into this development are joining together. See: http://tribecaspace25murray.blogspot.com.

50.

David Kest of Corcoran Marketing is in charge of TS project. He has done nothing but lie about the project. He should personally compensate all of the purchasers for their losses.

51.

Heard that Temp C of O has been DENIED!

52.

But Corcoran promised me that I'd be in my apartment BY THE END OF LAST YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!

53.

Post 52 - I can't feel that sorry for you - they promised me that I'd move in last Fall... Just got b.s. e-mail from developer - they still have no idea when closings will take place.

54.

There's word on streeteasy that Jim Brawders and David Kest (the Corcoran Agents who misrepresented when Tribeca Space would be ready) are forfeiting their commissions so that the purchasers can receive the money instead and that the developer is installing a washer and dryer in every apartment and giving each purchaser a $10,000 gift certificate to California Closets. Is that true? It seems like the least they can all do.

55.

According to Corcoran, closings have now been pushed back to the Fall - but they didn't specify what year...

56.

Closings delayed at least another two months.

57.

Latest word is that noone moving into the "Howard Johnsons of Tribeca" until 2008. No prediction on what month in 2008. Amazing when you remember that David Kest and Jim Brawders of Corcoran have been telling everybody that closings in Tribeca Space will begin in "a few weeks" since October 2006!!! What liers!!!

58.

Has any of you thought you are NUTS for screwing your life up paying such a astronomical price for what?

a condoze? geez we have so dumbed down America if you think $1000 sf is reasonable.

59.

JIM BRAWDERS! DAVID KEST! Has Corcoran fired your asses yet over your lies about Tribeca Space? I can't belive closings are now predicted for spring 2008. When you sold me my apartment you promised Fall 2006. Shame on you both.

60.

Just heard that Corcoran's "finest" brokers - David Kest and Jim Brawders - are now marketing a condo named 45 John - anyone thinking about buying into that building should be VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT BELIEVING ANYTHING THOSE TWO LIERS SAY.

61.

Any news on Tribeca Space? I walked by it this weekend and it's still sitting empty. Crazy!

62.

Still can't get a certificate of occupancy - I hear that many units sold as "2 bedrooms" must be reclassified as "1 bedrooms" since the second bedrooms don't have real windows. Will probably lead to many lawsuits by people who thought they were buying 2 bedroom apartments.