Fifth Street Lofts Comes Online

1.

I want overpriced apartments in a neighborhood that has not yet come into its own. Oh. Really? You got some right there? Its going to be that shiny? Thanks!

2.

I've been listening to naysayers about LIC for over 10 years now...get in line with all the others who are bitter about not being able to afford to live here now that they missed the boat.

And define overpriced in New York City.

3.

So, are these going to be any cheaper than the ridiculously overpriced Arris Lofts???

4.

Cheesey advertising notwithstanding, Toll Bros continues to impress with attractive modern housing that is light years ahead of what other developers are putting forward in New York.

5.

$1 Million+ in a neighborhood hasn't been established. $1 Million+ for units that overlook the LIRR tracks. Thats overpriced.

6.

I do hope a 55DSL boutique opens there. 55DSL@5SL. I can see the TATS CRU street art campaign now.

When they open the Second Life sales center it will be 55DSL@5SL@SL.

If the open one on the train to Brooklyn (in Second Life, though I don't know there are subways in Second Life), it would be 55DSL@5SL@SL@L.

7.

World famous DJ's to move me? Barf.

8.

who is their demographic exactly?
that website is vomit inducing

i like lic but this shit is getting ridiculous
already.

9.

Are those through-the-wall A/C vents under the windows? Yikes. And look at the 1 BR floor plans. Weird placements of the columns kill the layouts. O'Hara is indeed one of the worst architects practicing in New York. LIC has future but this is not helping.

10.

#3 - I hate to break it to you but Arris Lofts isn't overpriced. In fact, with prices starting at $600 per square foot, it is a down right steal compared to similar quality new construction in Manhattan going for easily double that with much higher monthly common charges. Having said this, only the highest of the high end luxury condo's in the city are even in the same ball park in terms of quality with Arris. The Developers and Costas Kondlyiss really had balls in sparing no expense in this building.

I guess there are people who are pissed that they are being priced out of LIC at $600 per square foot, but I've got news for you the price per square foot trend for each new condo coming to market in LIC is going up and up.

5SL is going to be much higher in cost per sq ft than Arris but isn't half the building in terms of quality. By the time that the neighborhood is more developed those who haven't got in early are going to be priced out.

I hate to break it to you but thats the way the world works.

11.

Besides the proximity to midtown, what's the appeal of LIC?

For that kind of money, why wouldn't you chose the Brooklyn Heights/Dumbo/Boerum Hill area instead? The commute to midtown would still be very quick, plus the neighborhoods are much more fleshed out. Not to mention you'd be much closer to downtown.

Totally serious question.

12.

#11. There is no other appeal. For that money, though you can go to Hoboken and still be close to midtown and actually live in a real residential neighborhood. LIC is good 4-5 years away from being "livable" and the discount is not there to make buying there worth while.

#10 must have paid over $600 per sq ft to live there...

13.

A Hoboken commute to Midtown is about twice as long...and ten times as crowded.

I wouldn't recommend living in LIC if you commute to Wall St./Downtown, but it's great for Midtown...easier and quickest commute there is. And the views are second to none.

14.

#10... comparing Arris Lofts or LIC to Manhattan is like comparing a big black cock with rippling veins to a little yellow cock with a head that barely breaks the skin. You can't compare it.

I paid a visit to Arris Lofts with my girlfriend. That package they give you after the tour is such a waste of cash. It must have cost them $10 - $20 to create that piece of "art". And their salespeople don't even follow up. What a waste. Joe Isuzu should rise from his grave and assrape some salesmanship in their botox laden selves.

15.

Oh yes... the views you get at Arris Lofts leave much to be desired.

One side looks over the railroad tracks. Whoopie! The other view gives you an intimate view of the lazy NYC government employees.

And parking? I asked the schmoozewoman about this, and she said that there's parking in the municipal garage a few blocks away. Wow! And wait until that tax abatement runs out.

At least your one block away from a truck stop style diner that serves breakfast all day. The local taxi drivers in the many nearby yellow taxi companies swear by it. Their pancakes are delicious, by the way.

16.

I love the "those who don't buy! buy! buy! now will be priced out" argument. *cough* SHILL! *cough* that is the equivalent of the late night infomercial's "Call in the next time minutes! supplies are limited! buy buy buy!" schtick. barf.

17.

im an appraiser and its very hard to find closed a sales in these developments. either people arent buying these, or banks arent lending on them.

18.

LIC to midtown is a breeze.

5Sl has a few things going for it. It is the first "bigger" (over 100 apts) closer to the river. It will have "big" condo ammenities like gyms and doormen but will still be a block from the water and 7 train.

They will all get snatched up just like The Gantry and Galaxy at $700-800 a sq ft.

Jake

19.

#17: Could it be due to the fact that except for Gantry, many of the new LIC developments including Arris haven't closed any units yet?

20.

#19 who knows, well see in six months

21.

Jake-
When do you think Rockrose is going to start marketing that condo they have sprouting next to East Coast? Any info. BTW, sold on LIC, just want to buy on the water, where I know the views will never be blocked, and not interested in City Lights, so come on Rockrose, let's do this!

22.

100 units at 5SL and 400 units at powerhouse do I smell a glut coming? Galaxy had only 12 units to sell and they still have 2 more to sell after being on the market for 4 months.

Who's snatching these units and how come Arris still has over 40 units left if these things are flying off the shelf as you claim. Gantry still has 2 units for sale as we speak. Tell the truth not your version. Pre-sales have gone well but most of this stuff isnt closed yet. Time will tell not your story.

23.

All the info I have on the Rockrose condo is on the website (click on EastCoast).

Basically, no new news at all. 200+ condos, on the river, started after the Rockrose 2 tops is done (mostly).

I expect over $1,000 a sq ft, but that is up for debate (and has been by kyle and I).

Jake

24.

$700-800 psf is freakin' insane for a "neighborhood" that doesn't even have a grocery store.

Why on earth would a buyer choose LIC over established areas like Brooklyn Heights or DUMBO? Same price per square foot (even for new luxury construction, if that's your thing), and you're in a prettier, nicer nabe with tons of services, restaurants, etc.

Seriously, does LIC offer ANYTHING other than an easy commute to midtown?

25.

Thanks Jake. I think they will go a little more conservative than that at the Rockrose joint. I have a contact over there, I'll have to dig through the address book, and get the scoop.
PS...My wife thinks I'm crazy to want to buy over there, but I'm gonna do it. So pissed I missed the Greiner-Maltz horse stable on 5th St...that was a slam dunk!

26.

"Cocaine is a hell of a drug." - Future #10.

27.

#19..The Gantry and The Galaxy are not the only buildings in LIC to be selling apartments. Purves is 100% sold out and The Badge Building has sold 50 of 55 units. When buyers snooze they lose and most people are waiting for prices to come down or for new condos to be priced lower. That just wont happen. Arris Lofts have not sold out because some of their condos are very expensive, not per sq ft., but because they have some very large apartments that just havent moved yet. However, they will and LIC will continue to move int he direction that it is going. Say what you want about the development of the area but there are some real positive signs and although it's not fully developed yet, there is enough to live there as single person or with a family. Also, there's this place called Manhattan 5 miutes away if you need something to do. Have some vision people...

28.

#10 is clearly an idiot. The building could have diamond-plated fixtures and still could never command the same prices as Manhattan; while LIC is certainly improving quickly, it still suffers from a remarkable lack of services and good schools. (Admittedly the school issue also applies to Dumbo and Williamsburg.)

Overall, I wonder if it ever makes sense to buy in a building that's much nicer than the neighborhood it sits in? (I don't know LIC well enough to say if Arris meets this criteria, but I would offer Loft 124 as an example in Harlem).

If the building has something truly unique about it (such as exceptional architecture or great views) I suppose it's worth considering, but otherwise I would you think you risk having to wait a long time for the rest of the neighborhood to come up to the level of prices in your building before you could ever profit.

Furthermore, I've always thought that people who pay a premium price for nice finishes are idiots - you can often get more for your money by doing your own reno, and many of these looks date so badly they don't hold their value anyway. Lots of building amenities such as pools, etc. don't do that much to help resale either. . .

29.

#22 The Gantry is fully sold and the 2 units on the market are resale. As for the Galaxy I am surprised it has sold most of its units since it looks like a brick box and worst of all it has no expansion joints (scary).

24# Besides the great commute LIC provides a great neighborhood feel and spectacular views. Add on to that a thriving art community and unlimited potential. This community has a lot to offer and if some people cannot see it, well it is there loss not ours.

30.

Condos are selling like crazy in LIC. And prices are not scaring away buyers. But this 5SL marketing had me a little thrown. Prices on studios will likely start at 500k +. And we expect artists and DJs? I had no idea DJs earned that much! And people having babies? In LIC? Are there even schools? And if so, they must be frightening. Lets be real. It's across from midtown corporate headquarters. At that price, you're talking white collar singles and couples. So lets give up the fake marketing and be honest. Besides, they'll scare away the real buyers if an investment banker thinks he's going to be living next to a noisy DJ!

31.

#30 I think the DJ reference is to the ability to listen to world reknowned DJ in PS1 during the summer. As for the families, maybe you have not walked the street during the day but the parks packed with strollers and kids.

32.

The commute from brooklyn or hoboken >>>>>>>>>>> longer than from LIC (5-10 minutes to Grand Central)to midtown. No comparison.

33.

If Arris has 40 units left it means that it has sold 200 as the size of the building is 240 units. That's pretty good considering that the building hasn't opened and that some of the units that they have sold are above $1.5 million. I have seen the building and although I didn't buy it is an amazing building and is superior to anything else in LIC (and as #10 claimed what is in Manhattan for several times the price). 5SL is not very impressive cookie cutter, middle of the road construction. Plus the location is closer to the waterfront which is where they are outting in 5,000 units in low income projects.

34.

# 15.

You were right about watching the gov employees, cause they are indeed LAZY! But Arris is not a building about views.......This building is prewar it has history.....great scale and massive structure! Why are you such an ASS....and as for parking at Arris, they have an inground garage dummy! so get your lies straight before you speak nonsense!

35.

#22 - 5SL and the Powerhouse will not have a problem selling out. Demand in LIC is very strong and while #10 may be harsh what he is saying has truth to it. Prices in the area are going up not down.

As for ammentities there are plenty of good restaurants in the area and there is a grocery store. However, reality is that major retailers don't establish businesses in an area until population density is at a certain level. While brooklyn has more to offer now, LIC has more potential. As the new condos fill in upscale ammenties will follow driving prices right up.

36.

Arris >>>>> 5SL. Insulting comparison.

37.

Anonymous >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anonymous

:)

Jake

38.

#30-

Studios in the Toll Bros. building start at 350k, not 500+...and there are 9 of them.

They'll sell within the first few days of sales.

39.

will they be nyc studio size?!?! probably 400 sqf

40.

Rickers Island drops off the inmates rght there in L.I.C late nights. The seven train is paked during morning rush hour.

41.

Prices are not really going up the units coming to the market now are just located in a more desirable area of LIC then Arris, Purves, QP and Fusion.

42.

Prices are not really going up the units coming to the market now are just located in a more desirable area of LIC then Arris, Purves, QP and Fusion.

43.

Two different studios...one 460 sq/ft, facing south, the other 554 sq/ft, facing west.

No word on main./cc though.

44.

Wait. This is in Long Island City? Seriously? Holy shit that's hilarious. *BARFY-BARFS*

45.

There are also people that live in certain places because of necessity. For some, living in a fairly new constructed building is important and if your job is in midtown Manhattan and begins at 7:30 in the morning, LIC could be the perfect place to live. The problem with all of you 'haters' on this and many other boards is that you think that people only buy real estate for the investment. When you plan on living somewhere for more than 3-5 years, convenience is also a factor. Maybe, your family is from Long Island and LIC is perfect for getting help with the kids. Also, the amount spent on a LIC condos gets you much more sq footage these days compared to Manhattan and even Brooklyn. That being said, I also believe that LIC is a great investment as well and those that have only bad things to say obviously are in some way upset abbout the prices (probably because you can't afford it)or you wouldn't have this much passion to speak up against it. sucks for you..great for those of us who have already bought in and those that are will be buying into the newest condos in town.

46.

"great for those of us who have already bought in and those that are will be buying into the newest condos in town."

Do you realize how douchey a statement that is? How will you feel when in a few months you're no longer in the "newest condo in town."

I am really in disbelief at how lame some folks are.

47.

The amount of FUD spread on this website (mostly in comments) is just amazing.

Why would anyone be so up in arms and against another neighborhood's growth?

Are LIC people posting about UES?

Crazy.

Jake

48.

#28 You may say that #10 is an idiot, but it sounds like you are missing his point. Prices in LIC + Arris are much much lower than manhattan not the same.

You are either incredibly rich in which case you can own a $ multimillion without its own washer and dryer or you prefer living in a crappy, undersized, so called luxury appartment with shitty finishes and ikea furniture where the you hear the noise of your neighbors through paper thin walls and floors and are kept up by taxicabs, fire engines and abulances all night. To make matters worse, when you want to sub-let or renovate your crappy appartment you can't because you have to deal with a pain in the ass co-op board. And while you talk about other people having shitty views out of their windows, the reality is that you spend absolutely no time whatsoever looking out of yours.

This is all so that you can say that you live in Manhattan but at the end of the day your commute to work is longer than if you lived in LIC and youhave to deal with packed #6 train cars every morning. Sounds like a great proposition to me.

However, there are alot of people who see otherwise.

49.

#41 + 42 - Not really true.

BTW - Arris + Purves are in a different area of LIC, the Courthouse Square Area, than Fusion and QP which are in Queens Plaza.

If you check within an sub-area Fusion is more expensive than QP. Galaxy is more expensive than the Gantry. Toll Brothers will be more expensive than that.

So prices are indeed and will continue to go up.

50.

i want hot water in the morning and my neighbor to stop tappin his foot to old Cowsill songs over my head. sweet.

51.

oh, and did I add i want a resident window cleaner to wash my mullion formed micro-windows. Get up on your tippy toes Mrs. Rodriquez YOU MISSED A SMUDGE!

52.

I agree #49. As for areas, I also disagree that the Courthouse Square Area is a less desirable area of LIC. While I would agree that the Queens Plaza is less desirable than the Waterfront, I prefer Courthouse Square to both.

Courthouse Square has the best architecture going up with its mix of cool looking modern office buildings in City Bank #2 and UNFC, historical landmarkets and condos - Arris (which I don't mean to offend anyone but is in a different league than any of the other buildings in LIC). The waterfront on the other hand is starting to look alot like Battery Park City. It is going to get ugllier and more crowded when the city low to medium income projects (5000 units arrive).

COurthouse Square is more close to the cultural institutions/ artist community like PS1, 5 pointz etc.. and has a different, more hip vibe. I also the city and state putting more money into improving the area because of the businesses located there

53.

OK. When a first time buyer asks me something inane like “how many units have ‘closed’ on that vacant lot that is selling off of plans?”… I can accept that. When an APPRAISER asks the same question they should be fired. Don’t you have to know anything about real estate transactions to be an appraiser or is it just the local notary/ video rental guy they send out from somewhere is Long Island?

Here’s the thing- every year some neighborhood that’s still pretty cool gets targeted on curbed. 2 years ago it was DUMBO. Last year Williamsburg.. now LIC. Some kind of collective hysteria sets in and everyone (yes.. from the upper east side) suddenly is consumed with a need to.. for no apparent reason.. tell other people not to move there.

If you have never had the experience of hoping the 7 train at Vernon and finding yourself in midtown some 5 minutes later you really don’t understand how great that commute is. Probably realtors faults for always using the “10 minutes” to something as a euphemism for … “well.. somewhere within a mile there is a train”. But the commute to uptown is hot and LIC is a pretty cool area. Not for anything but they do drop the prisoners at a train station… so they are only 5 minutes from the Upper East Side and I don’t hear anyone complaining abut safety over there (fear mongers).

On the other hand. God I hate Toll Brothers!! They build crap and overprice it. They are arrogant. They think NY is just like Phoenix and they will be damned if they will do anything different here then they do anywhere else. I can’t wait for their little NY venture to fail so they can pack up and return to middle America.

And bravo for the penis write up!

54.

#48, what I meant to say is that comparing Manhattan and LIC based primarily on building/finish quality doesn't really make sense, because the neighborhoods are so different.

Price per square foot is a much more important factor, and Manhattan certainly is more expensive - but the $1,000 and up average pricing you'll see in the media is a bit overblown. There are lots of buildings available in the $700-800 range (admittedly not as new/nice as Arris).

And in terms of subletting/renovation, nicer condos will still expect you to follow certain rules and procedures. In my last condo, subletters had to be approved by the board and pay annual fees; plus you needed to file any renovation plans with the management company and super, and pay another fee. In any event, there are a growing number of condos in Manhattan as well.

Overall, I think most people choose LIC because they can get more space for their money without having to endure a long commute; for some buildings, affordable river views are also a factor. These are all good reasons, but they don't make LIC "better" than Manhattan. Is LIC the first choice for many people, and a place they dreamed about living in one day? I think not - but Manhattan is for many people, right or wrong.

55.

Bottom line is that every time I have been around LIC, I have thought - "God, how does someone live here". I don't recall thinking that of DUMBO or Williamsburg. But hey if you want to grab a quick bite - you can hop on 7. Thanks, but no thanks. Oh, and 5000 low income housing units are going nearby? That's going to help resale prices... If and when the market cracks, LIC will feel the pain first. Trust me. No one wants to live in an isolated neighborhood with no amenities.

56.

More FUD from the valuable posters on Curbed.

#55: It is middle income not low income, big difference.

There are plenty of places to eat around the hood and more coming.

If the market cracks, people living in LIC will still be able to live there, in a great little neighborhood with nice views, lots of parks and easy access to the louder/busier NYC.

Jake

57.

We keep mentioning the easy commute to Manhattan vai the subway, but LIC also has amazing access to the LIE/BQE/Queensborough Bridge and Queens-Midtown Tunnel for you car people.

58.

55 - Let's be objective. Not a person that I know who has visited DUMBO and hasn't asked that question. It is grey and depressing.

As for ammenities there is no doubt more today in Brooklyn. The principal reason for this is that LIC was only recently rezoned to allow residential status. With all of the people buying and moving into condos ammenties will follow. That is a given.

Having said this, the characterization that you can't grab a bite to eat in LIC today is absolutely ridiculous. There are plenty of excellent restuarants on Vernon Blvd and Jackson avenue and other ammenities exist as well.

As for the overall market, the RE market in NY is holding up pretty well and actually increased last year. As long as interest rates stay stable, which it sure looks like form the Fed's most recent comments, there isn't any crash coming. With LIC becoming more and more attractive, prices are going up.

What cracks me up is that there are people living in Brooklyn today dissing LIC. Have they forgot about where Brooklyn came from not to long ago and what happened to prices there? The same thing is happening to LIC as we speak as each new condo goes up.

LIC has arrived and here to stay.

By the way, Arris also happens to be absolute steal. That building is amazing and much better than anything that I have seen in either Brooklyn or Manhattan. It is on a different level.

59.

Yes, all those new buildings are opening in LIC and there are no enterprising folks left in this city that will open restaurants, shops, etc to service the new population. Yep, NYers are just to stupid to see opportunity in this population growth in new neighborhood.
Whatever limited services that are there are all that is allowed forever and nothing is allowed to change.
Same for DUMBO as LIC. Cause stores, shops ,etc didn't exist they never will.

60.

I always wondered why people enjoy bashing each others neighborhoods. What is even more amazing is the false comments that are stated in these posts. It shows that people have either never set foot on LIC or if they did it was probably 10 yrs ago.

I find that most NYC hoods have their positive aspects and their negative ones. If a large group of people are living in an area because they choose to and not because they have to then that area must have something good about it. Most people that live in LIC live there by choice.

61.

Just bought in 5SL. Consider the following: new construction with private yard and other nice amenities, one stop to GCT / midtown offices (compare other commutes), $10 cab ride to/from midtown Manhattan, better view of Manhattan than most (98%) of those who live there, public parks on the river front, low taxes, at a fraction of the price psf. It was just a matter of time.

No doubt about it, there are also many fantastic places to live in and around Manhattan. LIC will compete with most of those places for one reason or another.

62.

Is there a 421 a tax abatement at 5sl?