Sunset Park To Enter Downzoning Olympics

1.

i am first

2.

Althought it is great to preserve the low rise charater of these neighborhoods, some thought has to go into where desparately needed new housing can be built. How about for each down zoning, the City up zones some disused industrial area for high density housing. The Sunset Park waterfront is ripe for just this sort of up zoning.

3.

They rezoned North Slope and didn't bother with South Slope, creating a mess. Then they rezoned South Slope and didn't bother with Sunset Park. Whereas the same issues apply.

There is no reason not do just do the same thing --upzone 4th Avenue for higher density, allowing developers more sites to bid for, and have zoning match the existing context on side streets occupied by quality low-rise buildings.

The good news -- Bay Ridge already has substantial buildings lining 4th Avenue, and contextual zoning on the side streets. So after this, they're done.

4.

Sunset Park is almost entirely filled with substandard housing. The neighborhood has been a dump for most of the 20th century. My grandfather used to commute to a chemical factory on the waterfront in the 1940s, and it was a dump EVEN THEN!

Sunset Park has minimal value in its current form. There is no reason the average density of the neighborhood shouldn't be as great as neighboring Bay Ridge or Park Slope - especially when you consider the simple fact the quality of the housing there is inferior.

Let's not forget also that zoning laws are nearly the EXCLUSIVE cause of housing shortages. Nowhere in the country is there a housing crisis except in those places with restrictive zoning.

http://post.economics.harvard.edu/hier/2002papers/HIER1948.pdf

This is just more political grandstanding by minority politicians who are afraid to lose their power base. If all the rich white people move in, they may not have a guaranteed job. Boo hoo.

5.

There is a significant interest in having substandard but acceptable housing around. I've looked at several places in Sunset Park (one over the Gowanus -- googling the address revealed a "dead basement in the body" article from about five years ago, but nice; two in nicer parts of the neighborhood in total crap shape, and poorly designed) and it's nice to have a reserve of budget housing close to the city. Plus, the neighborhood's pretty decent and safe, particularly east of 4th Ave. Lousy housing stock, nice place -- I don't see a problem.

6.

"a "dead basement in the body" "

A... wha?

7.

Eryximachus, thank you for being as eloquent as always. I love the way you are able to spew total BS and make it sound credible.

"quality of the housing there is inferior"

Are you refering to the brownstones, limestones or brick structures? Perhaps the Finnish Coops? Or the historic coordoor along the park? SSP has as unique a building style(s) as major parts of "brownstone" Brooklyn like the North/Central Slope and Brooklyn Heights.

Sure, there is some sub-par frame stock, but nothing a bit of TLC can help (I speak from experience, but you and I have sparred on this before). Re-use is key here.

As far as higher density, that is why it is called a "REZONING." CPC is always looking for areas to allow higher density, while preserving areas of lower density housing. And heck, there's going to be a percentage of the SSP population who wants/needs higher density.

That's where SPAN and other community groups come in and assist City Council, CB7 and CPC in making sure EVERYONE'S needs are addressed.

Seems pretty reasonable to me and about time!

8.

The guy who talks about substandard housing has never been there, obviously.

There are rowframes in a couple of places that perhaps could be replaced by some 4-story masonary R6B. But much of the neighborhood is good quality housing, except on 4th Ave which could be upzone, and some tenaments on streets like 60th.

A very nice neighborhood, overall.

9.

Let me also chime in against the guy saying that SSP has no good housing stock. I lived for a year on the ground floor of a beautiful brownstone on 45th St. Sure, there are some low quality row houses on a couple of blocks, but most every neighborhood in Brooklyn has a couple of those blocks. The majority of the housing is solid brick and stone. Take a drive around Sunset Park (the actual park, not the neighborhood) and you'll see some limestones to rival Park Slope.

10.

I would agree that a certain amouunt of density is necessary both to alleviate the lack of affordable housing and to provide the kind of vitality New York is known for. The trick ishaving the density in a way that doesn't overwhelm and obliterate the desirable characteristics of the neighborhood - and there are several. Sunset Park , the park, is a unique place and there should be ways to control the view corridor from the park down to the harbor effectively. The topography alone helps , with the western avenues being at quite a lower elevation and therefore more likely areas for taller and higher density buidings. I agree that the waterfront and 4th avenue should be more dense. Even though we live between 4th & 5th Avenues [on 56th street - a lovely brownstone block] we rarely get down to the waterfront since there really is not much down there [other than the terrific views of the harbor] and more importantly, one needs to cross the Gowanus Expressway and many blocks that are quite desolate. While targeting 2nd, 3rd & 4th avenues for higher densities is good - some thought need to be given to enhancing the major cross streets [39th possibly 44th, 50th perhaps, 60th] ,down to the waer. Encouraging dense, and vital mixed uses on the ways down to the waterfront is essential to knit the neighborhood together better.

11.

decay-NY: some good thoughts...one problem with the waterfront...

#1 Industry: which is actively being revitalized along the waterfront in SSP.

#2 Waterfront Park: (in phase 1 clean-up) from 39th to approx. 52nd St. 8MIL tagged for the first round of development and UPROSE is working on a green-way study to link it to Bklyn Bridge Park.

#3 Bush Terminal: probably 75% full of new businesses.

#4 CB7's 197-A plan, coming on-line in a few months for review by CPC. very big on waterfront preservation.

So, plan B?

12.

does any one have info about the Finnish co-ops in Sunset park? I have seen them for sale and they're listed as "cash-only". How does one deal with process? Do you get a personal loan, instead of a mortgage?