Balazs' Beaver Cleans Up Its Act

1.

who the hell markets a large building with serious inventory to a niche market anyway. If it was a 20 unit building which they wanted to make into a frat house for people who haven't quite left college; it would have been a good marketing theme.

This is a large tower in Fidi... market it to new families, singles and gays like everyone else!

2.

#1, the building has already been branded into public awareness as William Beaver = frat house, so unless Core --which's job at 141 fifth w/r/t to working with the devoloper in terms of finishes and spaces created is quite spectacular -- convinces this devoloper to cancel all current contract and completely rebrand, they are going to be in trouble selling mroe units, because all the streeters who wanted in are now in and the sales are no where near they need be. Families moving into this building? Never. Gays? Not the ones who know they are.

3.

Few new developments in NYC has recieved as much INK as this product over the past year as the Beaver House (not including you guys as CURBED - in which case you could fill up a Megilla).

The point is that sales are lagging here (33% after 6 months), there's much competition from other developments and the crowd intended to show up isn't coming (the young sexies.

I'm sure the see-through hot tub above the lobby doesn't help either.

4.

Maybe there aren't enough mega-assholes to fill the place. The website could not be more obnoxious.

5.

The loss of the William Beaver development to Core Marketing after Corcoran Sunshine's implementation of a ridiculously lackluster marketing campaign reflects the deleterious nature of the two-year-old merger between Corcoran Group Marketing and The Sunshine Group LTD. What was originally conceived as a consolidated real estate marketing "dream team" has proven to be a nightmare for all involved. Since the merger of the two firms, a number of high profile deflections have occured because of poor performing marketing campaigns, costing the newly merged entity a substantial amount of business. This is a far cry from the consistent river of creative genius that flowed out of The Sunshine Group under the leadership of Louise Sunshine, whose helpful hands touched every project, turning straw into gold. My recommendation to those at the helm at Corcoran Sunshine: drop the tawdry smoke and mirrors and bring back Louise Sunshine. She truly understood the value of crafting quality residential product that would satisfy the most discriminating buyers and sell itself. Sunshine leveraged a strong knowledge of the luxury market with a fastidious attention to detail when composing marketing plans. In contrast, the still relatively new Corcoran Sunshine is paying less attention to aesthetics and amenities and instead doodling laughable semi-pornographic storyboards that reek of desperation and detract from whatever value-maximizing attributes the development may have. I weep when I think about the only thing the Corcoran-Sunshine merger has been able to achieve since Louise's departure: mediocrity.

6.

Inspired Aspirant,

Your prose reeks of trying too hard, as well.

Plus what you are saying is common knowledge and has been stated since the day Louise was forced to leave.

Why don't you bring some "value" to the conversation and say something new?

Tell us, what should 15 william be turned into? Show us how much of a visionary you are!

7.

Corcoran - Sunshine is a joke. Pam Liebman as destroyed the Sunshine Group. She is clueless. She might be a great manager.Louise was a visionary but a poor manager.

8.

As I see it, the target group for this building is the aSmallWord.com crowd (affluent Europeans). Other than this crowd, the native “frat house” seeking buyer is not really realistic at these prices.

People who can afford these apartments are usually (i) older (i.e., generally not in their 20s), (ii) foreign (as noted above) or (iii) in financial services (which is primarily populated by men). At this price point, there are not a lot of 20 something single male and female buyers out there.

I am not sure about the rest of the readers here, out of my collective group of friends/acquaintances (the 30 something crowd), I only know a few single women that could afford to live in this building, and they are all professionals not into the “frat house” thing (and do not look like the models pictured in the advertising of this place – nor do my male friends/acquaintances look like the models).

One more thing, the building is also in the financial district – not exactly the most fun place to live in NYC.

9.

I have been to a number of open houses as of late, and the buying crowd is mostly couples or older folks. I do not see a lot of singles (and barely any single women). Unlike 8, I have many model friends, but unfortunately, they are all dating rich Europeans or South Americas, and are not moving to “FiDi.”

I have an idea of how to move these apartments - lower the price!

10.

Seems that many of the buildings in the Financial District are less than half sold after months and months of trying. The Setai, The Beav, 25 Broad etc. Plus, I wonder how many of the units they've sold were to people who bought thinking they are going to flip it later. I think the writing has been on the wall for a while. There's just not enough real demand for this many units, at these price points, for this neighborhood, right now. Prices will fall and/or some of these projects will convert back to office or to rentals.
My guess is the Setai is the first to announce they are going office.

11.

André Balazs is Hungarian for Caveat Emptor.

If Daddy wasn't rich, he would have been doing three-card monte on Broadway to survive.

12.

To anon#2: The William Beaver property is difficult to position given its location, but it can be salvaged. As other posters noted previously, the Financial District has few amusements and even fewer conveniences. The Lower Manhattan Development Corporation envisions the Financial District as a future "24/7" neighborhood, but this vision will not be realized for quite some time. In the interim, the financial district's major advantages are relatively easy access to Brooklyn, New Jersey, and Staten Island and close proximity to Wall Street.
The William Beaver property could work very well as an extended-stay condo-hotel type project especially for the "business class" customer. As the Financial District vision crystallizes into a reality with the hastening influx of luxury boutiques and 9/11 memorials making the District a destination, the hotel will benefit from increased demand. In the meantime, I would start marketing the units to the major financial institutions based in the District; they surely could use the units as corporate/relocation housing for new hires. Some of the post-grad "frat house" building elements could go to good use under the corporate relocation program, as many new hires in the financial service industry are newly minted college grads who might appreciate some of the quirky elements of the current William Beaver package.

13.

Decent effort. Your writing style is getting better. However you are completely bull-headed to think that financial instutions would place their most valued asset in an enviroment like WBH on purpose.

The only way to go here, obviously, is luxury rental. Done. However, the agressive numbers the sponsor is asking probably indicate that a rental won't work for them.

Katie, why do you talk poorly about Andre? He is a great man!

And yes, let's keep all the asmallworld people in one building together. Europeans will sympathize with our frat boy situation when they learn about all the similarities!

14.

Inspiring Aspirant, I concur. However, Louise Sunshine's glory days are gone. She is a dinosaur. It will be VERY interesting to see what Shaun Osher comes up with for this site. Everything Core has done to date has been remarkable. Look at 141 5th Avenue.

15.

The Financial District is off the charts. It's EXACTLY where I want to live. Why, you may ask...because it is on the cusp of being the most happening neighborhood in Manhattan! It is architecturally interesting, and starting to buzz.

16.

CORCORAN SUCKS.

Pam Liebman couldn't lead a kindergarten class, let alone a brokerage company.

17.

Holy Shit......have you seen the projects Core Group is working on? Check their website.
www.coregroupnyc.com

18.

I think Pam needs to ride off into the sunset on a black horse.

19.

To Merkert Savvy: I do not consider Louise Sunshine a dinosaur. If she had been allowed to operate as she had in The Sunshine Group's pre-merger days, I think her chain of blockbuster residential marketing concepts would have continued. Shaun Osher and his team have produced fine work, but everyone knows that in an increasingly crowded field of marketing firms, The Sunshine Group rose head-and-shoulders above the competition. The weighty demands of working under Corcoran's bloated corporate structure have obviously eradicated the creativity that was once The Sunshine Group's trademark. The other marketing firms benefited from Louise's creativity, as her competitors would reach for the bar she had set so high, multiplying the quanity of quality residential product. Now that the industry's visionary vanguard has been pushed out of the picture, progress in the industry is stagnant, and product on the market is increasingly stale.

Perhaps I am just venting about the state of the new development marketing industry, as I have grown so used to expecting innovative developments to come from a reliable source. Now, in Louise Sunshine's absence, everything has changed.

To Sunshine: you claim that Louise Sunshine was not a good manage - Please explain.

20.

Can you guys say Battery Park City....

This website could easily be back in 1987. Yes, waterfornt living, indoor Palm trees of world financial center, shopping and bars/resturants attracted only state isalnd ferry crowd on Thursday nights for Morans....

Battery Park had the same pitch, with a marina, better views and its still sucks 20 years later....even the Merrill, etc bankers only lasted a couple of yrs before they unloaded them at -30% less to their minions 5-7 years later.

Financial district blows.....Gordan Gecko still lives there though

21.

Competition from District NY (districtny.com)

22.

Inspired Aspirant, you make some valid points, however, Louise is gone. And if she ever came back, she would be out of touch! The market has changed. There are very few fresh projects out there. I think that not only is Osher's Core Group the freshest group out there, but they would have given Sunshine a run for their money in her heyday.

23.

To Shvo hater: The assertion that Louise Sunshine would be out of touch with today's market is an interesting one. Please explain.

As for Osher and his Core Group, the work looks respectable, but most of their projects have gained little buzz - positive or otherwise. I consider buzz a key indicator of marketing success. Please explain why you place the Core Group at the top of the development marketing hierarchy.

24.

Anyone notice how the RE Shucksters are trying to slide in the capitalized "District" as it is a proper noun? Is this an Amy Sacco trick?

I think there should be a vote as to which is more obnoxious . . Curbed's darling "FiDi" or "District withacapitalD".

25.

I've lived and worked in the Financial District since 2000. NO ONE calls it FiDi. EVER - not even once - it makes us cringe.

Kent Swig and his 740 Park Ave cronies were probably all drunk one night and placed a bet to see if he could ever get the nickname to catch on - no way Mr. Swig.

"The District" is much better and gets my vote. Where do you live? I live in The District. - sounds good to me.

26.

Inspired Aspirant. Buzz is all bullshit. (Read my opinion of buzzmakers in my namesake)! All Core's projects -to date- have made an impact on the market in a positive way (from a marketing standpoint)Shvo received so much buzz for 20 Pine...and he can't get $950 Per Ft and is still trying to sell. Go to the websites and see for yourself.

27.

#25. Here's an ORIGINAL concept...how about calling the neighborhood "Wall Street". I mean, c'mon.....why the fuck do we have to reinvent it??? Wall Street is the financial capital of the Universe.........and soon to be Retail Epicenter of the World.

28.

#27 Can't call it Wall St anymore - Wall St is not the financial capital of the world - the NYSE is becoming extinct as we speak and will, sooner than later, be a museum. The WTC will be much more of a financial capital in just a few years. Nearly every building on the south side of Wall is a residential building now. 37, 45, 63, 67, 75 all residential. As a long time (read pre-grant) resident of the Financial District I used to tell people I lived in "Wall Street" but as Wall's significance has diminished I find myself referring to it as The Financial District exclusively. Although "The District" may catch on. We'll see.

29.

#15 offers a superbly barfalicious comment. Thank you, you kind, creepily-tanned, Lexus-leasing friend!

30.

busy blog day

31.

And what about Andre's role in this? It sounds like a bunch of insider talk. I am sure there are many more tales to be told to the William Beaver story other than a merger and Louise's departure. So where WAS Andre when creative was developed? Out with Uma?

32.

No, not another CORE project!!! Core is truly a worthless addition to the brokerage community. I am not saying that Sunshine is good... but I were a developer I would rather give my money to a hobo than put my project in the hands of CORE.

It is like the Beaver William people are looking to give their project back to the bank.

33.

The problem with so much of the marketing today is that it harkens back to the 80's where people were shown partying in swimming pools. What ever that has to do with luxury living is beyond me. It was Louise Sunshine who believed in emphasizing the architect, the developer, the landscaper...in other words the very things that added value to a property. Let's see, would I rather buy in a building where I could bounce a beach ball around in a pool while having some beer or would I rather make a consumer educated responsible decision. The consumers are much smarter than the current marketers give them credit for. Louise Sunshine addressed consumers as an educated class and created buzz while she did it.

34.

core is a tiny firm, totally small potatoes with no selling resources. maybe good at the concept phase, maybe, but with zero ability to create buzz and attract buyers through its own website etc... has no real website.
not sure what happened with beaver but i saw the sales office, very cool, but the pricing was 1,200-1,300/SF so that is really the problem. Doubt that Core with now website or real market presence can sell for those prices. it's a classic fire the marketer type thing, easy to fire broker than to lower prices i guess but that's what they will need to do eventually. 20 pine and district are much more stylish and are priced MUCH lower.
corcoran is a top selling brokerage firm and the selling is just as important as the pre-construction think tank part.
just my opinion

35.

You guys are all jealous because you can't afford these apartments.. Why don't you find something else to do than be miserable all your lives.. Everyone works hard in order to make it so BUZZ OFF.. Believe me if you had the money you would not be writing about this.. Beaver is a wonderful idea and I think Core will do a great job like everything else.. Good luck to all the people involved in Beaver because it's going to be a GREAT BUILDING!!!!!

36.

Beaver might eventually be a great building, but CORE will still suck.

37.

#32 and 34 are the type of people who who think of Macdonalds as fine cuisine, and a Toyota as a luxury vehicle. I like the change, personally.

38.

#32 and 34 are the type of people who who think of Macdonalds as fine cuisine, and a Toyota as a luxury vehicle. I like the change, personally.

39.

#32 and 34 are the type of people who who think of Macdonalds as fine cuisine, and a Toyota as a luxury vehicle. I like the change, personally.

40.

Thank you #33 and #34; I think you are correct in assessing both the state of the new development marketing profession and the specific issues at William Beaver. The qualitative decline in new development marketing is the result of changes not only in the real estate market but also in the human resource offices of top new development marketing firms. With the large crop of new developments growing out of every crevice of the city, marketers are under increased pressure to create distinctive marketing campaigns at a rapid pace. Meanwhile, new development marketing firms are so desperate to catch as large a share of new business as they possibly can. So much so that they have begun expanding their staffs by hiring people who have no experience in or even related to real estate, filling their ranks with young marketers from the media and entertainment industry. These new players think that they can just apply the techniques they employed while they were at NBC or Coca-Cola (storyboards, cartoons, etc.), and pay little to no attention to the product development angle that is critical in new development marketing. The William Beaver project is an archetypal example of this: all gimmicry, no substance. Louise Sunshine tried to teach the industry a valuable lesson: the devil is in the details. Unfortunately, no one listened.

41.

#40

Louise is that you?

42.

# 40 young marketers with no experience is not even the issue
the real issue is the amazing lack of capable SALES team who can closed deals
let's just reflect on the success of star sales people like wilbur gonzalez - peope who come with a fat rolodex and not just irrelevant sales people sitting in expensive sales offices waiting for buyers to come in because of a big fat ad in the new york times

43.

First of all, anyone who saw the KITCHEN FINISHES way back when they had the party with the 3/4 naked fire girls knew this wasn't going to sell.
Especially after you saw the pricing and the ridiculous bathroom tile. Andre probably thought this was cheap pricing after the 40 Mercer expereience. CORE has to come up with a powerful new marketing campaign.

44.

I'm always amazed that Corcoran Sunshine gets hired in the first place. I've worked with/for them and know their game. They come in and talk about the depth of their dream team and powerful reach. But the reality - they are an overstretched bunch of advertising / marketing hacks. This sounds harsh but when you work with them, you'll find out. I've talked with developers and the creative partners they hire about their dealing with Corc Sun. You hear similar comments: "they are great at blaming others for their own mistakes", "they're not worth the money", "too many projects and not enough time for my project", "I've never met a more disrespectful group of people". I hope this is a wakeup call for the Cor Sun team. To get fired from such a high profile account when you brazenly promoted this as brilliance should only teach you a lesson. Clean up your act Cor Sunshine. Karma's a bitch.

45.

WHEW! What a hot topic.

46.

Bottom line? New development marketing is the most subjective industry in the world. Big ideas, big parties, blockbuster ad campaigns - they mean everything for the egos of all involved. But going the distance means all aspects - concept, design, branding, marketing, salesmanship, and rollout strategy - all need to be on target. When you compare the sales record of the top firm (singular) against the next ten competitors all this criticism becomes boring dialogue that is important only in the blogosphere. If you are hiring a marketing agent tomorrow, ask them about the sales record on the last ten projects that they not only started but finished and if their marketing magic worked. There lies the bottom line.

47.

#44

Corc Sun People are the most arrogant,obnoxiuos, descpicable people in the business.
The Corc - Sun merger has been a disaster from the beginning and it all starts at the top with PAM L

48.

Hey 46 - Don't know where you stand on the CorSun angle but lets make a bet. Lets see how many successes CorSun has over the next 12 months. I'm talking about those arrogant know-it-alls at 888, not some of the really good sales agents who work hard to develop sales. Lets see how often the CorSun team get fired. Lets see how many times their competitors beat them. Lets also compare how much they have their clients spend vs. other marketing agents spend. Agree with 44 and 47. Developers WAKE UP WILL YOU.

49.

it's tricky because perhaps some of the more innovative "think tank" marketers don't have the ability to actually sell out through their websites and cobrokes because they have no real powerful websites. as a result the developer foots these ginormous bills (and I know the figures here) using advertising instead of just listing on the brokerage cobroke system ROLEX and on their own website & nyt.com 24-7 which is included when you use corcoran and elliman for example. i think it's true that the big firms have great talent but obviously have a lot of work and might be overstretched. but what is the alternative? as a developer if you work with one of the small firms that have cropped up in past years such as Shvo (unethical and hated among brokers who shun his jobs)or Core (not high profile, tiny little office, no website) you have no chance of selling out a building without spending a king's ransom on print and web advertising that you wouldn't need at all if you are with the top 2 firms because consumers adn brokers go on their personal websites to look around.
there is no perfect solution in this new development boom, everyone has grown extremely fast and each options has strong pros/cons.

50.

#49: I definitely think you are onto something. The print and web ad package is definitely weighted heavily in a developer's assessment of marketing firms and is very likely the reason for Corcoran Sunshine and Elliman's ability to get new business so easily.

#42: In new development, the sales team is an important component of the system, but it is not the most important component. Consumers purchase units based on the quality and price. The onus is on the marketing team to create a product where the quality and price are attractive to an appropriate market segment. If that is not done, then you can go hire the Laker Girls as sales agents and the place still will not sell.

In new development, the key is to create a place that will sell itself.

51.

Inspired Aspirant - You obviously know this business. And should know that unless you are Louis Sunshine who could force the hand of anyone, the developer will frequently drive price. They always think their product is worth more and if they have in their mind they want to raise the price it usually happens. Especially, first timers.

Does anyone know what else SDS has developed? I can't even find a website on them. This developer's lack of experience is evident. They cut corners on finishes and priced themselves out of the market.

Add a personality such as Andre's to the mix and you have a recipe for disaster. Word has it he was completely in love with that damn Beaver, no pun intended. Thought it was genius.

As someone stated before, classic example of firing the marketing company. Easier to cast blame than it is to admit you are wrong and lower prices.

52.

#49.....in answer to your question....Core does have a website (www.coregroupnyc.com)......and it is more creative than any of the bigger firms. Smaller firms have the ability to do this. Corcoran's website is so large, and filled with so much info, it's impossible to find what you're looking for. Everything looks exactly the same. Look up the word generic in the dictionary! Generic = Corcoran.

53.

Yes it is really me LOUISE M SUNSHINE alive and well and Very proud of my new position as Development Director of the Alexico Group It is with great pride and pleasure that I announce that Corcoran Sunshine is the Exclusive Selling Agent for The Laurel at 400 East 67thst,The Mark,and 56
Leonard Street. These three developments all of which are being branded in conjunction with Richard Pandiscio, whom I think is the most brilliant mind in the industry ,will give you all all much to write and talk about Hopefully they will reflect the marketing standards that this dinosaur is famous for........................As I Have always said let's all stop talking and start selling earn 4% call my dear friend and colleague Jeannie Woodbrey 212 750 5550 and don't forget Run Bike or Swim to the Laurel and be among the first to learn about the Upper East Side's BEST new building

54.

I am personallly thrilled to see that you, Louise are still in the game. I over the course of the past 10 years have been purchasing appartments in the buildings you have so ingeniously marketed. I must also recognize that Jeannie Woodbrey has represented all the buildings that I have purchased. at the beginig I thought she was a bit of a ditzy blond, but now she has proven to be a living fortune teller of equity gains. I have followed Jeannie from building to building and I know wherever she is sitting is gold. You Louise are not a dinosaur, you are a crocadile, one of the oldest and non extinct creatures on Earth!!!!!!!

55.

#53: Is this real? Is Louise Sunshine really going to be the new Development Director at Alexico? Or is this a hoax?

As for Corcoran Sunshine, I think things could have worked out had The Sunshine Group been allowed to retain its identity under the umbrella of Corcoran - The Sunshine Group's website was MUCH nicer than anything Corcoran ever had.